Religion

Replies are closed for this discussion.

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Joseph on October 22, 2008 at 4:17pm

Do you believe that the signs of the times point to us living in the last days????? According to the Bible I know many people don't believe in the Bible but how can you dismiss the predictions of world events that have happen exactly as the Bible predicted?

Permalink Reply by Christopher on October 23, 2008 at 8:50am

Joseph said:

Do you believe that the signs of the times point to us living in the last days????? According to the Bible I know many people don't believe in the Bible but how can you dismiss the predictions of world events that have happen exactly as the Bible predicted?

If the end is coming, let it come. There really is nothing we can do but live our life today as best we can. Should we suddenly change our whole lives and become better people because the end is near? I say, let us do that anyway. There really is not way of knowing whether or not the Bible has the absolute proof. If we say the Bible is correct, why not Nostradamus or the Tibetan book of the dead or the predictions of the Incas (I think they predicted the end of the world by 12/12/2012, (oh gosh that's close! I better start living my life)) or the Torah with its "Bible code/matrix" or any other religious text.

With regards to religion and politics, I am going to be really nerdy and like everyone else compare Rome to the US. Dante refered to politics and religion in his Purgatorio as two sun. Rome and the Papal states lived side by side, one not grafting the other, but once they merged, corruption and decay quickly followed. Thus, it was for Rome, so to is it for the US. Religion must stay out of politics and visa versa. However, my question to you is: "Is this possible?" With morals so closely tied to religion can any legislation pass without drawing upon the Bible? Moreover, religious institutions provide a great public service through food drives, donations, and soup kitchens, all of which can be construed as separate from religion. Should not the government help out with these efforts?
Now we have reached the subject of parochial schools: should the government support these? Here I think, the government has crossed the line. Parochial schools, since they promote religion, should not receive government subsidies. What do you all think?

Permalink Reply by Karl on October 23, 2008 at 10:48am

Christopher,

I am with you regarding religion and schools. Government money should never be given to parochial schools for two reasons:

1. The government would fund a Catholic school and maybe a Hebrew school. However, I hazard to guess that a Muslim school may have a slight bit of difficulty receiving funding.

2. By giving money to a parochial school the government has a stake in a place that has traditionally been private.

I am the product of private, parochial schools. My parents got what they paid for and I have no complaints. I would hate to see unnecessary changes take place in parochial schools that would come from government funding should the government decide to flex financial muscles.


Christopher said:

Joseph said:

Do you believe that the signs of the times point to us living in the last days????? According to the Bible I know many people don't believe in the Bible but how can you dismiss the predictions of world events that have happen exactly as the Bible predicted?

If the end is coming, let it come. There really is nothing we can do but live our life today as best we can. Should we suddenly change our whole lives and become better people because the end is near? I say, let us do that anyway. There really is not way of knowing whether or not the Bible has the absolute proof. If we say the Bible is correct, why not Nostradamus or the Tibetan book of the dead or the predictions of the Incas (I think they predicted the end of the world by 12/12/2012, (oh gosh that's close! I better start living my life)) or the Torah with its "Bible code/matrix" or any other religious text.

With regards to religion and politics, I am going to be really nerdy and like everyone else compare Rome to the US. Dante refered to politics and religion in his Purgatorio as two sun. Rome and the Papal states lived side by side, one not grafting the other, but once they merged, corruption and decay quickly followed. Thus, it was for Rome, so to is it for the US. Religion must stay out of politics and visa versa. However, my question to you is: "Is this possible?" With morals so closely tied to religion can any legislation pass without drawing upon the Bible? Moreover, religious institutions provide a great public service through food drives, donations, and soup kitchens, all of which can be construed as separate from religion. Should not the government help out with these efforts?
Now we have reached the subject of parochial schools: should the government support these? Here I think, the government has crossed the line. Parochial schools, since they promote religion, should not receive government subsidies. What do you all think?

Permalink Reply by Joseph on October 24, 2008 at 9:27am

Karl said:

Christopher,

I am with you regarding religion and schools. Government money should never be given to parochial schools for two reasons:

1. The government would fund a Catholic school and maybe a Hebrew school. However, I hazard to guess that a Muslim school may have a slight bit of difficulty receiving funding.

2. By giving money to a parochial school the government has a stake in a place that has traditionally been private.

I am the product of private, parochial schools. My parents got what they paid for and I have no complaints. I would hate to see unnecessary changes take place in parochial schools that would come from government funding should the government decide to flex financial muscles.


Christopher said:

Joseph said:

Do you believe that the signs of the times point to us living in the last days????? According to the Bible I know many people don't believe in the Bible but how can you dismiss the predictions of world events that have happen exactly as the Bible predicted?

If the end is coming, let it come. There really is nothing we can do but live our life today as best we can. Should we suddenly change our whole lives and become better people because the end is near? I say, let us do that anyway. There really is not way of knowing whether or not the Bible has the absolute proof. If we say the Bible is correct, why not Nostradamus or the Tibetan book of the dead or the predictions of the Incas (I think they predicted the end of the world by 12/12/2012, (oh gosh that's close! I better start living my life)) or the Torah with its "Bible code/matrix" or any other religious text.

With regards to religion and politics, I am going to be really nerdy and like everyone else compare Rome to the US. Dante refered to politics and religion in his Purgatorio as two sun. Rome and the Papal states lived side by side, one not grafting the other, but once they merged, corruption and decay quickly followed. Thus, it was for Rome, so to is it for the US. Religion must stay out of politics and visa versa. However, my question to you is: "Is this possible?" With morals so closely tied to religion can any legislation pass without drawing upon the Bible? Moreover, religious institutions provide a great public service through food drives, donations, and soup kitchens, all of which can be construed as separate from religion. Should not the government help out with these efforts?
Now we have reached the subject of parochial schools: should the government support these? Here I think, the government has crossed the line. Parochial schools, since they promote religion, should not receive government subsidies. What do you all think?

Permalink Reply by Joseph on October 24, 2008 at 10:12am

A couple of points to be made concerning the first reply Christopher stated that if the world is coming to a end let it come there is nothing we can do but live our lives the best we can. I agree and disagree with that statement.

first of all before I respond let me say I am not a theologian so I don't know everything or even half of everything but I give to you what I have been blessed with. As I was saying I agree that we have to live the best life we can....but it is more than that today In order to Live the best we can we need help...we need the power of the Holy Spirit...it comes to my mind a conversation I had recently with my older brother he is in the middle about believing in God ..and to me it is simple as this most people believe either we was created by God or a different version of that ie...buddism or other religions not knocking those I really don't know too much but I say different because I don't think that they believe that they was created by budda....or whatever other religions believe in...or the second more popular belief we just evolved (we first was monkeys or something like that) I truly don't understand that version either. the point is this I believe we was created by God ...in saying that it is God to do his will and good pleasure in us making us co-laborers with God....Yes we have to surrender and be obedient to God so we can live the best lives we can but it is not us living it is Christ in you and me the hope of Glory. So Christ living in us we can spread the Gospel........and it is a lifetime thing...when you look at the life of Christ you see so much and we can live and do those same things.... as you have seen recently in the news a Young Lady just got murdered spreading the Gospel which is evident there is a devil. So if there is a devil we know that there is a God. We can look around and see the sin and the evil in and around our lives and as you say do the best we can ...we have to take a stand for God doing his will and in our lives as of the life of that blessed young lady God will tell us all individually what we should do.

Permalink Reply by Joseph on October 24, 2008 at 10:17am

I also believe that the Government should not be involved in religious school but I believe in these last days we are living in government powers and political powers will mingle once again. I just have to pray that we who hold on the banner of Christ don't get swayed by evil that will be presented to us and stand firm on the Present Truth that God has and will present to us in the last days...

Karl said:

Christopher,

I am with you regarding religion and schools. Government money should never be given to parochial schools for two reasons:

1. The government would fund a Catholic school and maybe a Hebrew school. However, I hazard to guess that a Muslim school may have a slight bit of difficulty receiving funding.

2. By giving money to a parochial school the government has a stake in a place that has traditionally been private.

I am the product of private, parochial schools. My parents got what they paid for and I have no complaints. I would hate to see unnecessary changes take place in parochial schools that would come from government funding should the government decide to flex financial muscles.


Christopher said:

Joseph said:

Do you believe that the signs of the times point to us living in the last days????? According to the Bible I know many people don't believe in the Bible but how can you dismiss the predictions of world events that have happen exactly as the Bible predicted?

If the end is coming, let it come. There really is nothing we can do but live our life today as best we can. Should we suddenly change our whole lives and become better people because the end is near? I say, let us do that anyway. There really is not way of knowing whether or not the Bible has the absolute proof. If we say the Bible is correct, why not Nostradamus or the Tibetan book of the dead or the predictions of the Incas (I think they predicted the end of the world by 12/12/2012, (oh gosh that's close! I better start living my life)) or the Torah with its "Bible code/matrix" or any other religious text.

With regards to religion and politics, I am going to be really nerdy and like everyone else compare Rome to the US. Dante refered to politics and religion in his Purgatorio as two sun. Rome and the Papal states lived side by side, one not grafting the other, but once they merged, corruption and decay quickly followed. Thus, it was for Rome, so to is it for the US. Religion must stay out of politics and visa versa. However, my question to you is: "Is this possible?" With morals so closely tied to religion can any legislation pass without drawing upon the Bible? Moreover, religious institutions provide a great public service through food drives, donations, and soup kitchens, all of which can be construed as separate from religion. Should not the government help out with these efforts?
Now we have reached the subject of parochial schools: should the government support these? Here I think, the government has crossed the line. Parochial schools, since they promote religion, should not receive government subsidies. What do you all think?

Permalink Reply by Joseph on October 24, 2008 at 1:06pm

Woman Killed for Spreading Christianity

I am taking note of this Incident because I truly believe it is worthy to be noted. I first of all pray for Gayle Williams family and send them my condolences, I also honor her and all those missionaries who see Christ as more important than there own lives. In the Holy Scriptures God says if you honor me I will honor you, and in this space she as well as they are being honored. It goes back to even the Dark Ages and John the Baptist and anyone else that may have been mentioned who have lost there precious lives for the sake of Christ as we all know they will be rewarded.


God Bless

Joseph

Permalink Reply by Jeff Howe on October 25, 2008 at 10:11pm

I think that religion is kind of like a huge game of telephone - there's a truth that's been shared between the different religions but it's been modified a lot between the different faiths. I really wish that rather than competing for worshippers that the different faiths could be more accepting - it would make for a better world.

Permalink Reply by C M Keel, Sr on October 31, 2008 at 5:05pm

Jeff, I completely agree with you here. Unfortunately, religion has been used more as a weapon of exclusion rather than a means for inclusion. Regardless of the teachings of many of the world's holy men, common man likes to feel superior to others by claiming some exclusive knowledge of the divine that only they posses. Men like Jesus, Buddha, Mohammad, Gandhi and others repetitively taught love and acceptance of others, mercy and compassion above law, rather than the bigotry and hatred that predominates most of the world's major religions today.

I think religion will always be a part of human reality. Hopefully, in the future, we can begin to concentrate on the immanence of God within the whole of the universe and see our fellow man as an extension of this divine into the world. If we worked from that thesis, the needs of our fellowman would definitely become more important.

Jeff Howe said:

I think that religion is kind of like a huge game of telephone - there's a truth that's been shared between the different religions but it's been modified a lot between the different faiths. I really wish that rather than competing for worshippers that the different faiths could be more accepting - it would make for a better world.

As for religion and politics, I am very encouraged by the broadening of agendas within the evangelical camp. No longer are issues such as abortion and gay rights drawing such bold lines between conservatives and liberals. Many religious voters are turning their attention to other issues: global poverty, health care, environmental issues (coined as creation care by this new breed of religious voters), removing American troops from unjust wars, among other things.

Pro-life language seems to be changing as well; or, at least what is meant by it. More and more I am hearing the idea that life should be protected from womb to tomb. What good have we really done if we protect a fetus in the womb only to let him/her die from the lack of health care and nutrition? How can we decry the evils of abortion and support an unjust war where countless civilians, including many women and children, are being killed and seen as collateral damage? An ethic that supports and reveres life must do so at every stage, regardless of age or innocence.

This is definitely going to be a ground breaking election. Religious sentiments are changing and I think that this election is going to reflect the changes in attitude among this country's religious constituents. No longer are they in the pocket of any political party and no longer is their vision so narrowly focused. There really are so many pertinent issues involved in this election that to reduce them down to a party line of one or two issues would be a grave injustice. To me, the fact that we have millions of children right here in the US that are food insecure is just as important as any other issue that might affect people of faith. With this said, I have hope that this election will establish a change in the religious voice in America and that we will begin to take all our responsibilities to heart.

Permalink Reply by Joseph on October 31, 2008 at 9:03pm

Hello I disagree with the statement that God puts mercy and compassion above his law. There is many bible scriptures that point to God asHoly Just and Good and there is Many scriptures that point to God's Law as Holy Just and Good. I know of many scriptures to point that the Ten Commandments is Holy Just and Good. The Lord would put nothing about his law (Ten Commandments)or himself, I believe we as a people and even many christians are not developing a close enought relationship with Christ to understand his law. His mercy is readily scene because his mercy and compassion is what allow us to live in unrepentant sin, but his law will be made manifest just as much when we stand before him and he said to some of us or most of the world depart from me ye who worked iniquity I never knew you and those will not enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Many have and are living a life of unconfessed sin and disobedient to the Law...the commandments of God and never experienced the True Life Christ wants us to Live. I see the evil that is going on in this world but tomorrow is not promised to anyone, Yes we as people have a responsibility in this world in our country and around the world to help end the sufferings of Mankind. The difference that we need to make starts within ourselves and then goes out to our brother and sisters. I believe as we come to a oneness with Christ we will be able to fufill God's will for our lives and do so much more than we are doing now as a people and as a country because we would have the Power of the Holy Spirit working with us helping us do what we cannot do ourselves.
Once we are connected to the Lifesouce than we can through the power of God reach ALL the people that needs to be reach until them there will always be people wanting.

God Bless
joseph

Permalink Reply by Frank on November 13, 2008 at 11:03pm

Joseph said:

Do you believe that the signs of the times point to us living in the last days????? According to the Bible I know many people don't believe in the Bible but how can you dismiss the predictions of world events that have happen exactly as the Bible predicted?

No, I do not believe the Christian Bible is any thing more than a heavily edited collection of wisdom from a very different era of human life on earth. I do think that there is a lot to learn from it, but no more so than any other religious or philosophical tradition.

Perhaps the end of our civilization is near, or perhaps not. Either way, I choose to act in ways that I perceive to be honest, just, kind, forgiving and that promote peace. I do it because I want to help make the lives of my fellow humans better, more peaceful, joyful. I think this is a more "moral" motive to live than to act out of fear of punishment or hope for reward in some afterlife.

If there is some sort of Creator that chooses to pass judgment on me, I can only hope that such a being is a reasonable and intelligent person and will look at my life and say, "Hey, Frank, not bad!" Certainly, there's no reason why a Creator should be such a person; it could just as easily be an irrational, egotistical jerk who takes pleasure at causing arbitrary suffering. If so, I'm out of luck. If there is a Creator, I suspect such a being would have to be so far beyond our imagining, that any fears of Last Judgment would be as silly as the bacteria in our intestines obsessing about our judging them harshly as individuals for producing gas.

I do understand that life is scary. We want Meaning with a capital M. We want to feel that we as individuals have a greater significance that what we perceive in our daily lives. We want to be reassured that when we die, we don't really cease to exist. On the one hand, we have billions of years of evolution instilling us with a drive to stay alive, while on the other hand, we have this recently evolved ability to predict the likely future. That ability tells us that every single person dies and ceases to exist, so the same thing is going to happen to us. There's some major conflict there. Oh no! But wanting something does not make it so.

I think religious faiths and the traditions that go along with them help people build a framework to put their lives in a more comfortable context. They promote community and social stability. They codify a set of morals and behaviors that everyone can agree on. That's all great. The problems start to arise when religious institutions deny fallibility, when they claim exclusive access to Truth. Then you end up with holy wars, the mentally ill burned to death at the stake and young girls stoned to death because they had the misfortune to get raped.

Maybe there is a Creator, maybe not. Maybe we continue to exist in some way after death, maybe not. I think both are unlikely, but not impossible. I think at this point in our history, it is impossible to say with any certainty one way or the other; there just isn't any solid evidence either way. So in the mean time, I'll continue to try to make the world a little bit better in the areas where I have some influence.

Well, that reply turned out much longer than I had planned. I hope that it is taken in the spirit of the original post, as an attempt to share opinions and ideas, as opposed to any kind of attack on other's beliefs.

Permalink Reply by Karl on November 14, 2008 at 12:20pm

Wow, Frank! Well stated.

When my time on this twirling rock is done I hope that I will have made the right decisions. I believe in a creator who will be there to greet me on the other side. (Well, maybe not the creator, maybe an assisstant who will set up an appointment for us to have a talk.) I also think that the worries here will seem trivial.

If I am wrong. So what? I will be nothing and will have nothing to worry about. If I am right, cool. It's a win-win situation.

As for who goes where in the end and why, that's not my department. I have no real idea. I just pray/hope for the best.

Frank said:

Joseph said:

Do you believe that the signs of the times point to us living in the last days????? According to the Bible I know many people don't believe in the Bible but how can you dismiss the predictions of world events that have happen exactly as the Bible predicted?

No, I do not believe the Christian Bible is any thing more than a heavily edited collection of wisdom from a very different era of human life on earth. I do think that there is a lot to learn from it, but no more so than any other religious or philosophical tradition.

Perhaps the end of our civilization is near, or perhaps not. Either way, I choose to act in ways that I perceive to be honest, just, kind, forgiving and that promote peace. I do it because I want to help make the lives of my fellow humans better, more peaceful, joyful. I think this is a more "moral" motive to live than to act out of fear of punishment or hope for reward in some afterlife.

If there is some sort of Creator that chooses to pass judgment on me, I can only hope that such a being is a reasonable and intelligent person and will look at my life and say, "Hey, Frank, not bad!" Certainly, there's no reason why a Creator should be such a person; it could just as easily be an irrational, egotistical jerk who takes pleasure at causing arbitrary suffering. If so, I'm out of luck. If there is a Creator, I suspect such a being would have to be so far beyond our imagining, that any fears of Last Judgment would be as silly as the bacteria in our intestines obsessing about our judging them harshly as individuals for producing gas.

I do understand that life is scary. We want Meaning with a capital M. We want to feel that we as individuals have a greater significance that what we perceive in our daily lives. We want to be reassured that when we die, we don't really cease to exist. On the one hand, we have billions of years of evolution instilling us with a drive to stay alive, while on the other hand, we have this recently evolved ability to predict the likely future. That ability tells us that every single person dies and ceases to exist, so the same thing is going to happen to us. There's some major conflict there. Oh no! But wanting something does not make it so.

I think religious faiths and the traditions that go along with them help people build a framework to put their lives in a more comfortable context. They promote community and social stability. They codify a set of morals and behaviors that everyone can agree on. That's all great. The problems start to arise when religious institutions deny fallibility, when they claim exclusive access to Truth. Then you end up with holy wars, the mentally ill burned to death at the stake and young girls stoned to death because they had the misfortune to get raped.

Maybe there is a Creator, maybe not. Maybe we continue to exist in some way after death, maybe not. I think both are unlikely, but not impossible. I think at this point in our history, it is impossible to say with any certainty one way or the other; there just isn't any solid evidence either way. So in the mean time, I'll continue to try to make the world a little bit better in the areas where I have some influence.

Well, that reply turned out much longer than I had planned. I hope that it is taken in the spirit of the original post, as an attempt to share opinions and ideas, as opposed to any kind of attack on other's beliefs.

• ‹ Previous
• 1
• 2
• 3
• Next ›
• Page